Any tips on how I can fight algae buildup on the tank walls in my breeding setup. I went through and cleaned all my tanks yesterday and today the algae on the tanks walls are back!!!


 I was thinking maybe vodka dosing, but not sure how this would work on my 400  juvi's on my system. Any Ideas?


 Here is a FTS of my setup. And a pic of my second oldest batch feeding.

The setups look great...I love seein' basement operations like this. Keep up the great work.

Regarding algae...well, lets be realistic here. In a situation where you have tons of fish crowded into small spaces, all being fed routinely, where biological filtration is more than required to keep ammonia and nitrites under control, you are simply doing everything possible to grow algae. You're going to have to deal with it, there's no magic cure or prevention that I know of. So, really, it's going to come back down to standard husbandry and nutrient control. I'll just rattle some off...maybe there's something here that you can do that you aren't already. In no particular order.

#1. Daily siphoning off of uneaten food and waste. Think of it as small daily water changes. Yes, it IS a lot of work, but on the other hand, economies of scale do apply to some extent..it probably feels a lot worse to do this on only one tank vs. 6!

#2. Daily cleaning of mechanical filtration. A lot of folks place micron socks on the outflows from their overflows. You don't have to clean them daily, but obviously if you do, you'll remove more waste before it ever breaks down.

#3. Protein Skimming. The more waste you remove the better off you'll be.

#4. UV Sterlizer - will kill off free floating single cell algae in the water...small victory perhaps, but every bit counts, right? ;)

#5. Ozone - can help oxidize waste among other things.

#6. Feeding less food per feeding, and feeding more often instead. Small, frequent feedings are pretty much a requirement anyways for the babies, but you have to remember that more of the calories and nutrition in the food gets absorbed if the fish are feed smaller amounts more frequently. The net result is less waste. Less waste = less fertilizer.

#7. Red Slime - you can knock it out before it gets out of hand. You never want to see Red Slime in your system...a sign of bad husbandry and something out of whack. Not saying it can't happen, but I'd consider it a big problem or at least a big warning sign.

#8. Use a cleanup crew - seriously, why not keep snails in your tanks? Oh, because yes, if you have to medicate, you could kill them off. But ordinarily, day-to-day, I see no harm in TRYING this as a helpful approach. In theory, if you had to take a growout tank offline for medication, or heck, even the whole system, just go through, grab out your little blue legged hermits and Trochus snails (you could even breed Trochus and Stomatellas!) and throw them into separate QT until your problems are under control. Obviously a cleanup crew may not be suitable in the earliest stages, but for the most part, I see no issues. If you find a hermit nibbling a dead fish, chances are it was already dead or dying.

#9. Algae Scrubbers - look 'em up. Talk to people who've done 'em. I like to think that this is a way of "making nice" with algae...compromising by letting it grow somewhere, where you tell it too. Of course, there are certain situations where you'd want be able to take this offline (i.e. if medicating) where you'd want to not kill off the algae accidentally (and further pollute the system). Algae / Turf Scrubbers provide a means of nutrient export..the periodic harvest permanently removes the bound up waste.

#10. Refugium? Well, seriously, not that different from an Algae Scrubber. Why not grow macro algaes?   Let's not forget, again, here's a complimentary product you could cultivate and sell / give away along with the fish you produce.  Again, you could plumb a refugium-style algae tank in, and take it offline in the event you have to medicate in a manner which might kill off the life you're trying to cultivate. You can always bring the refugium back online at a later date once problems are under control.

#11. Denitrifiers. I've built a coil denitrator that never worked, but hey, that was only my first try. There are all sorts of methods from DIY Deep Sand Bucket denitrifiers to expensive commercial units. You have a myriard of choices.

#12. Treat your tanks like they're reef tanks - Yes. Dose with calcium, buffer, vitamins, iodide...do what you can to promote beneficial algaes. Heck, up your lighting a bit. Why not let the backs of the tanks grow coralline? Again, this kinda goes back to some of my other ideas...i.e. having the refugium, or algae scrubber. Instead of trying to fight what naturally wants to occur in your tanks, find ways to channel this 'natural force' into more beneficial outcomes.

#13. Lucky #13 is Water Changes. Yes, when all else falls short, dilution is the last but most tried and true method of nutrient control we have at our disposal. I don't really like the idea of so much saltwater going down the drain, but you could look at any number of the suggestions I've listed here as ways to reclaim some of that saltwater outside of the growout system.

#14. Phosphate Removers - won't HURT, but you may not see much of a result.

#15. Kalkwasser - can bind up Phosphates.. ;) See #12.

And when all else fails, and your tanks still have algae growing on all sides, there is the failsafe:

#16. Razor Blade. Your tanks are glass. Buy a box of 100 at Home Depot and they'll last you a couple years. Embrace them (only figuratively).


I'm sure there are 10 things I forgot or would think of if I kept at it. Some of these points are going to be more effective than others. There is only so much technology and gadgets can do, and in the end, you're going to have algae growing whether you like it or not. It really comes down to the day to day husbandry, those things like water changes, cleaning mechanical filters, scraping the glass...but the upside is that staying involved and keeping on top of these taskes will result in better results in your growout - it's not just for show.

That's my $0.02...I definitely welcome others to chime in with their own thoughts!

Matt

Oh, and one more thing - Vodka Dosing. It definitely crossed my mind. I tried it in one of my nano SPS tanks and saw pretty quick results that I was definitely pleased with. However, Vodka dosing in a relatively sterile growout system like this is not the same as a reef tank with hundreds of pounds of live rock and possibly a deep sand bed. I think we don't all know enough about what vodka dosing REALLY does, and how it REALLY works, to be able to predict how it might work in this situation. A drop of Vodka per day to this system is probably not going to hurt a thing, but by the same token, you may see no benefit whatsoever. Do you want to risk crossing the line and killing off everything? I think its' more possible in a setup like this than in a reef...I *think* there's a lot more at play in a reef type environment when it comes to vodka dosing. If you do it, you do so at your own risk, and I cannot stress enough to go really slow and err on the side of caution!

The closer your systems approach a more "holistic" concept..that is to say more live rock, external DSB, refugiums / algae scrubbers, the more apt I'd be to say sure, give Vodka dosing a try. I'm certainly no expert, but part of the theory behind it is that it fuels natural denitrifcation which occurs in anaerobic settings. In the typical wet/dry + heavy skimming + bare tanks growout, you don't have places for anaerobic micro-environments to develop. And that's is what has me really questioning what would happen if you started vodka dosing in the traditional growout type setting.

#17 - Related to the vodka dosing are some of these other "ultra low nutrient" type systems on the market, i.e. the Fauna Marin products like Ultralith. I have no experience with these types of products on the marine side, but this is certainly yet another avenue to look into where experimentation may be warranted.

Thank you for your reply's. 

 I do light the setup via standard flourscent lights/T5's for 14 hours a day. I am going to cut this back a bit to start. I do know someone who is using an algae scrubber on his breeding/hatchery and it works. Def. keeps his water clean. The problem is I am out of space with where the tanks are esp. given the other area's I want to tackle in the near future. As I have expanded more then I originally intended with my broodstock, I will need more growout space I think.   I have 4 pairs of broodstock, 2 True perc pairs(breeding), 1 set of O's(Former breeders) and 1 set of Black and whites(not quite old enough to breed, but doing the wiggle).  I will most likely build a second setup where the big tank is on the right in the picture above. If I do, I think this one will be a 2 tier setup for added space and thought out a bit more.

 For filtration, I am using C sized filters from marineland, I use 3 of these sandwiched on each side of my return/bubble trap so the water has to flow through it. Also I have a little of 100 lbs of live rock with my total water volume right now at close to 90-100 gallons. I have some macro/cheato in two of my tanks with the broodstock in it. It doesnt seem to be growing/bigger then when I added it. I was trying not to put a light over my sump but I may move some cheato from my DT into the sump and light it. I light my DT's sump 20+ hours a day and the cheato grows like crazy in there and my water quality is really good.

 I try to siphon the extra food daily but has become more of a every other day thing the last week or so. I feed about 6 to 8 times a day with small meals of alternating between flake, mushed up mysis, Flake with added garlic + nutrarose, ground up cylopese granulates and Otohime A. The problem I have is the little buggers always swim to the top looking for food when ever I am around the setup. Makes me want to feed them more!


 

I guess there is a plus side to having all of this algae buildup every day in my tanks! My Nitrates have actually decreased in my breeding setup! Here's to the glass is half full!!!!

Well, now that you mention it, I guess I never really did even bring that up...afterall, your question was how do you get RID of it. There's no reason parsay that your "algae scrubbers" can't be the back walls of your tanks.

I'd still use some or all of those methods above to make sure you continue to grow beneficial algae rather than potentially toxic types like the various slime algae, and striving for clean (not sterile, just "clean") is going to give you good growth, fewer defects, and overall higher quality output.

I am trying my best to keep it clean. But using the tanks as somewhat of an algae scrubber, I feel so embarressed. If someone came over and saw my tanks dirty like that. I may have to hide myself for awhile. Especially if it were a perspective buyer. I had someone over lastweekend and they saw the dirtiest tank I have in the house. I tell you, I stayed up extra late that night and cleaned it out realy good! It was my sons small FW tank with a lonely but stuffed shrimp in it.

Well, you raise another point. Afterall, how much is this cleanliness of glass about YOU (and customers) vs. fish health. And of course, you hit it right on the head - the fish don't really care about the mild algae and it has some nice benefits.

Maybe this is just as much a question about scheduling and routine. And perhaps even more so, about the business aspect of being a breeder. Afterall, if you were selling only to shops, and it was all delivery, how your tanks looked from an algae standpoint would be irrelevant. But, if you're becoming sort of a "basement retailer", you do have to keep up appearances. Perhaps it's better to limit your "appointments" to weekend visits, and the routine to get into is that Friday night is algae scraping day. I know all too well the experience of scrubbing every tank in the house when someone was coming over. I wouldn't let anyone step into my basement right now without at least a hours notice ;) You are certainly not alone.

And maybe that's the last thing to consider - at least some of your visitors will be all too understanding of a little bit of algae on the glass....they may very well know firsthand how quickly the stuff can appear, and maybe hobbyist-to-hobbyist they'll cut ya some slack!